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Post by Shylight on Nov 5, 2016 21:14:02 GMT
So, it just dawned on me that we don't have quests for the dungeon, and that actually impacts how much I'm interested in doing them. I'm sure it's the same for quite a few others. In my opinion quests should be for amount of room searches and for quest items found in rooms (flat out battle numbers are another one that comes to mind, but I don't feel like it's too much alike to the normal combat).
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Post by lorinthar on Nov 5, 2016 22:00:32 GMT
So, it just dawned on me that we don't have quests for the dungeon, and that actually impacts how much I'm interested in doing them. I'm sure it's the same for quite a few others. In my opinion quests should be for amount of room searches and for quest items found in rooms (flat out battle numbers are another one that comes to mind, but I don't feel like it's too much alike to the normal combat). Since this is an idle game, there's absolutely no need to encourage active game play. It's fine to add it as a concession to the people who are willing to sacrifice their time (and from what I hear, some profit) for a button they need to click every 6 seconds instead of every few minutes, but it should be made clear that it's just that - a concession for players who'd prefer a game designed for active play, but for some reason haven't found this game yet and are calling Avabur their temporary haven. (God only knows how they ended up here, but everyone's welcome.  ) |
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Post by Shylight on Nov 5, 2016 23:19:13 GMT
Somehow, I fail to understand you. Dungeons are a part of the game. A part that, unfortunately, falls behind in some aspects, questing being one of them. You might not like it, but it's no reason to diss it. Thankfully it's a game where you can just do the part that you find enjoyable. For me, personally, dungeon turned out to be far more enjoyable than carving for example (probably even more than crafting).
P.S. Strange to call a game that heavily punishes you for the lack of pretty much constant vigilance "idle".
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Post by lorinthar on Nov 6, 2016 9:47:48 GMT
Somehow, I fail to understand you. Dungeons are a part of the game. A part that, unfortunately, falls behind in some aspects, questing being one of them. You might not like it, but it's no reason to diss it. Thankfully it's a game where you can just do the part that you find enjoyable. For me, personally, dungeon turned out to be far more enjoyable than carving for example (probably even more than crafting). P.S. Strange to call a game that heavily punishes you for the lack of pretty much constant vigilance "idle". It doesn't punish you for lack of constant vigilance. You can literally let it sit for days at a time and the only thing you'll miss is events, housing, and now dungeons. And even if you come back every few hours to start a house build or have a ding to come back for events every few hours, you don't have to miss out on either of those even if you're doing something else. And you can have a ding to replenish stamina, so you don't have to miss out on that either without being active. Literally the only thing that requires you to be active is the dungeon; if that's the most enjoyable part of the game for you, I really recommend that you look for a different game - not because we don't want you here, but because there are games out there that are /designed/ to be active like that. For example, I'm a big fan of NeoQuest (on Neopets), which is somewhat similar to the dungeon here, but much better developed. And the Avabur dungeon is essentially a roguelike (but without permadeath), so if you're looking for an even more similar experience (text-based, maze, stairs to lower levels, searching for items manually, etc.), you can look into the multitude of roguelikes out there - there are literally hundreds of them. |
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Post by Shylight on Nov 6, 2016 10:11:19 GMT
Dungeon isn't most enjoyable for me. But it isn't least enjoyable either. And trust me, I played plenty of roguelikes and spent probably more than a hundred of hours in Rogue itself. It doesn't mean I can't appreciate a change of pace in this game from time to time.
Anyway, the dungeon is already here, in this game. Abandoning it just because it's not aligning with your personal vision of how game should be isn't something I agree with. I want to see it at least hold its own.
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Post by spire on Nov 6, 2016 16:27:30 GMT
Totally agree with shylight. Dungeons as they are designed are pretty much crap, wasting exp/profit vs actual battling.
They need something, so you can benefit more if you're actively playing instead of penalizing you. That something could be quest and extra fame bonuses for starters, though I'm assuming we're expecting crowns to come from them.
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Post by lorinthar on Nov 6, 2016 19:35:20 GMT
Anyway, the dungeon is already here, in this game. Abandoning it just because it's not aligning with your personal vision of how game should be isn't something I agree with. I want to see it at least hold its own. I never said anything about abandonning it. I said it's already there for everyone who wanted it. No need to waste even more time on a feature that does not align with the spirit of the game when there are already hundreds of other games that have done a much better job of it. As you said, the dungeon is already here; no need to waste precious developer time on it.
And it's not just a matter of developer resources - adding more rewards for the dungeon penalises regular players. It was always intended to be something that you /can/ do if you want but that's going to be less rewarding than the main gameplay, so that those of us playing the game as it was intended don't have to miss out on any additional rewards. As Spire explained in the post above mine, dungeons are specifically designed to be a waste of exp and profit, and what you're proposing would take that aspect away.
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Post by Vysn on Nov 6, 2016 23:26:27 GMT
Dungeons aren't "designed to be a waste" ... that's silly. They'll definitely get additional updates in the future, like the ability to group with other players in them.
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Post by lorinthar on Nov 7, 2016 2:16:44 GMT
Dungeons aren't "designed to be a waste" ... that's silly. They'll definitely get additional updates in the future, like the ability to group with other players in them. That's certainly rather unfortunate, but it's good to hear the dev's word on this. |
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Post by spire on Nov 7, 2016 21:20:58 GMT
Anyway, the dungeon is already here, in this game. Abandoning it just because it's not aligning with your personal vision of how game should be isn't something I agree with. I want to see it at least hold its own. I never said anything about abandonning it. I said it's already there for everyone who wanted it. No need to waste even more time on a feature that does not align with the spirit of the game when there are already hundreds of other games that have done a much better job of it. As you said, the dungeon is already here; no need to waste precious developer time on it.
And it's not just a matter of developer resources - adding more rewards for the dungeon penalises regular players. It was always intended to be something that you /can/ do if you want but that's going to be less rewarding than the main gameplay, so that those of us playing the game as it was intended don't have to miss out on any additional rewards. As Spire explained in the post above mine, dungeons are specifically designed to be a waste of exp and profit, and what you're proposing would take that aspect away.
I think you misunderstood me there lor. I'm not saying vysn intentionally designed it to be a waste of exp and profit, and definately that wouldn't be an aspect of the game. I'm saying it was poorly designed (or the rewards were poorly designed , take your pick) and should be redesigned. The game penalizes you via fatigue system, when you are not active. Dungeons should give greater rewards for the active players , whatever the time they choose to spend on dungeons 10 minutes or 10 hours per day, vs an active idler. |
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Post by euphone on Nov 10, 2016 8:06:08 GMT
I think of the dungeon in its current state as one of those perma-early access roguelikes on Steam. All it needs is a cosmetic bonus for investing before the full release.
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Post by terribletank on Nov 11, 2016 18:51:30 GMT
Dungeons aren't "designed to be a waste" ... that's silly. They'll definitely get additional updates in the future, like the ability to group with other players in them. That's certainly rather unfortunate, but it's good to hear the dev's word on this. Oh it's good to disagree again Lorinthar, we had an awkward moment where we agreed on something, but we're back. I love the concept of dungeons, if they're just given a 10% multiplicative bonus to xp, gold, drops, and stat drops to make up for the time in between battles, OR just a timer reduction equal to time lost between battles, dungeons could be amazing. as of now the input lag, the equal rewards for an equal mob, the unuseable rewards as long as dungeon rewards share slots with required ring of greed and lockets, the uninteresting and unimpactful rewards for clearing a room, all make dungeons fall flat. My dungeon suggestions: Bigger rooms with more mobs, with a guarenteed room drop that's bigger, while the boost improves the room drop. Improved rewards or time reduction to compensate for lost time. Unique equip slots for dungeon rewards. Of course, also add a quest, why not? I could live without the first suggestion, but without the 2nd and 3rd I will likely not be doing dungeons unless another equally meaningful fix is put in their place. |
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